Posts Tagged ‘Tony Compolo’

I Love Tony Campolo, I hate Tony Campolo

The Colbert Report is not something to be taken seriously. Guests who do take it seriously come off looking like idiots. Tony Campolo is no idiot. He fared pretty well with Colbert.

However…

I am not a fan of Tony Campolo. I’ve been pretty clear about that. But something I’ve been saying quite a bit in my current Sunday school class is that we can learn from those who err. And in this "interview" Campolo says somethings we can and should learn from. Evangelicalism is not a monolithic movement. There are more Moderates and Democrats who are (or consider themselves to be) Evangelicals than the mainstream media lets on or is able to comprehend. Campolo should blow some minds in the media with what he’s said.

However #2, there were somethings that Campolo said that are blowing my mind. First, he warned Colbert to worry about what comes after the judgement. That seems inconsistant with his view of hell and salvation after death! And the way Campolo sets the Old Testament (Hebrew Scriptures) over against the New Testament is not helpful either. Colbert pointed out that the Old Testament says to stone homosexuals. How does Tony answer that? "Jesus ups the ante. This is what is said in the Hebrew Bible but I say to you…" It sounds like Jesus didn’t agree with the Old Testament. But that can’t be, the Old Testament pointed to him, including the Law (Luke 24:27)!

Finally, I don’t know if I’ve commented on this before but I am very troubled by Campolo’s "Red Letter Christian" thing. It sounds like the only thing in the Bible that counts is what Jesus said. Like Paul and Luke and Peter and the other writers were not inspired or something.

Hell Under Fire?

INTRODUCTION

The Biblical doctrine of hell is not a popular subject in our postmodern world. The notion of it offends popular sensibilities. Even Christians get a bit uneasy with the subject. And yet, Jesus preached on it often. John, in Revelation didn’t shy away from it. We’ve seen the stereotypes of preachers (typically sweaty Southerners) who appear to preach on little else. But they’re outdated, right? I’m going to spend a bit of time working through the subject to see how outdated hell is.

There have been defections within the evangelical camp on this issue. I’ve commented on Bart Campolo‘s abandonment of the doctrine. This American Life had a show on heretics (11/20/06) and they highlighted Carlton Pearson’s abandonment of the doctrine. Pearson was a popular, Black, charismatic preacher in case you’ve never heard of him. I even came across someone who says he’s a Reformed Baptist who denies the eternality of hell. While not an abandonment of the doctrine, it is an alteration of it. John Stott, an otherwise exceptional evangelical teacher, embraces a similar alteration of the traditional understanding of hell.

When salvation is merely temporal, i.e. no more than “changed lives”, an eternal hell makes little sense. I think that if we had a greater appreciation for what salvation means, we’d have a greater appreciation for what we’ve been saved from.I am not one to defend traditional understandings simply because they are traditional. I believe in the Reformed doctrine of ecclesia reformata semper reformanda est, that is that the church is reformed and always reforming. That doesn’t mean that we’re always changing our doctrine, it means that we need to continually check our doctrine. Are we being as Biblical as we can? I think this question needs to be asked of the doctrine of hell because of the societal pressure away from the notion.

The doctrine of hell is not esoteric, eschatological argument fodder. It has implications here and now as well as in eternity. During the Da Vinci Code hubbub last summer our church had a Sunday school class on the divinity of Jesus and the issue of hell came up. Did Jesus descend into hell? Christians have had different opinions on that question for quite a while and my wife mentioned that perhaps if we understood the doctrine of hell better we might be able to better answer that question. I think she’s very right.

So why all the recent drift on the doctrine? Perhaps there is a cultural influence that is driving the evangelical boat in an odd direction on this. I mean, when salvation is merely temporal, i.e. no more than “changed lives”, an eternal hell makes little sense. It seems that if we had a greater appreciation for what salvation means, we’d have a greater appreciation for what we’ve been saved from. We aren’t saved merely from destructive patterns in our lives, we’re saved from the very wrath of God (Rom 5:9).

Still, dealing directly with all of the positions on hell would be a book-length project. For a simple blogger that’s too much. Let me instead address what I believe is a common misconception of what hell is and hopefully that will at least lead in to some of the objections.

Right off, let me say that I believe that the Bible teaches that hell is a) real, b) eternal and c) horrible beyond what we can imagine. I also believe that all who are born are born under sin and therefore headed to hell unless God intervenes on their behalf. We are saved from hell only by faith in Jesus Christ. There. There, my cards are on the table.

A POPULAR FORMULATION

The sentiment I want to use as a spring board is this, “Hell is separation from God.” First, the Biblical support for this statement. Paul says of those afflicting Christians, “They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might.” (2Th 1:9) Another supporting verse is when Jesus is talking about the final judgment and he explains that some will say to him “Lord, Lord!” and he will answer them, “I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.” (Matt 7:23) These two verses would seem to indicate that in the final judgment, the unsaved depart from God’s presence forever.

Why might this concept of hell might be appealing? I have even heard this idea express as “God gives them what they wanted: nothing to do with Him.” This sentiment makes God passive in the damning of lost souls. It would seem to fit well with modern Arminianism which places man as the determining factor of his salvation. The counterpart of that would seem to be man in control of his own damnation as well. It also exonerates God from the horrors of hell.

Yet, this is insufficient because it doesn’t take into account all of what the Bible has to say about the subject. Perhaps, though, you can understand the attraction of this idea. The traditional view of Hell seems horrible and cruel. Eternal punishment, flames that don’t go out, flesh-eating worms that won’t die. An eternity of that for a sin that occurred in a finite period of time. Would our God do something like that? Surely a place like that must be beyond Him, it isn’t anything He would do.

A BIBLICAL EXAMINATION

Now I want to look at the popular conception outlined above in light of a broader Biblical survey of the doctrine of hell. It must, of course include the verses listed above or it falls to the same criticism.

The first scripture that comes to mind when I consider the question of whether hell is being out of God’s presence forever is Psalm 139. David is reflecting on how thoroughly God knows him. He then begins to reflect on where he could go so that the Spirit of God might not see him. In the end he confesses that there is no where that God does not see him: “If I make my bed in Sheol 1An Hebrew word that really denotes not heaven or hell but the abode of the dead. In other words, it encompasses both ideas. Both the righteous and the unrighteous are said to descend to Sheol. I was taught that Sheol was a place with two compartments and when Jesus died he went and released everyone from Sheol so they went to heaven or hell. There really is no Biblical evidence for this. The better way to think about it is to understand Sheol as an umbrella term for both, it is simply where dead people are., you are there!” (Psa 139:8) Even in death David knows that he cannot escape from God’s presence. I suppose it could be argued that David was sure he was going to heaven and so Sheol for him meant salvation. But that really doesn’t work in the Psalm itself. David already mentioned heaven. The parallel line in the second part of the verse encompasses more, it encompasses death in general.

Beyond that, what of the verses that speak of God’s wrath? I cited Romans 5:9 above but there others. Can we legitimately conceive of being subjected to God’s wrath as being simply out of his presence? When I’m angry with my kids I often send them out of the room so they’re not subjected to my (unrighteous) wrath! In other words, both Old Testament and New Testament examples of God’s wrath are active events, not passive. Let me cite one of each and leave it there for right now.

From the Old Testament, consider Korah’s rebellion in Numbers 16. When Korah’s clan leads a rebellion against Moses, God responds by opening up the ground beneath them and it swallows them whole “[s]o they and all that belonged to them went down alive into Sheol” (Num 16:33). The next day the congregation grumbles about it and the Lord’s wrath “goes out” and the plague starts (16:46). It is only by Moses’ and Aaron’s intercession that the plague was stayed. These events depict God’s wrath as an active thing.

From the New Testament, consider the winepress from Revelation 14:19-20 and 19:15. This winepress represents God’s wrath against the wicked who are thrown into it and trodden. Their blood flows to the depth of a horse’s bridle for miles. That imagery doesn’t portray God as passive in the punishment. Indeed, in 19:15, it is King Jesus who treads it!

Alright, but what about the “depart from me” language used above? If hell is God’s wrath, how are we supposed to integrate those other texts? The best way is just to read them. In Matthew 7 the people are dismissed from Jesus throne at judgment. In 2 Thessalonians passage, they are punished away from the presence of the Lord, yes, but the verse continues. “[A]nd from the glory of his might, when he comes on that day to be glorified in his saints” (2Th 1:9b-10). This is not speaking of God in the completeness of His Trinity, but of Jesus Christ who is the One to come. They are away from Jesus and the “glory of his might” which is the cross. They are eternally before God but without Jesus Christ as intercessor and savior! What a horrifying place to be. To bear the full brunt of God’s righteous wrath all by yourself. This is horrifying and it really should cause us to be even more eager in evangelism. We need to warn more people of the judgment to come and their only hope for standing in that judgment.

COMMON OBJECTIONS

Is eternal punishment for finite sins just? There are two things that need to be addressed in this question. First, we need to understand who we’ve offended. If I were to take a can of spray paint and deface the sign for the city dump, I might get some jail time. Imagine if I took that same can and somehow got to the original Declaration of Independence! They’d throw me in a federal penitentiary and throw away the key. The magnitude of my punishment is proportional to the significance of the thing offended. When we sin, we offend an infinitely holy, eternally existent God who created us from dirt! How much greater should punishment for that be?

The second issue that needs to be discussed is the notion that once we die we stop doing things. In other words, it is presumed that in hell we won’t sin any more. But hell is “filled with people who, for all eternity, still want to be the center of the universe and who persist in their God-defying rebellion.” 2D. A. Carson quoted in The Case for Faith by Lee Strobel, 193. Sin continues in hell and it is probably worse there because now the rebellious know that God exists and that Jesus Christ is the Savior and King and they still rebel and still hate him. So even in hell wrath is increased.

What about the innocent savage who never heard of Jesus Christ but tried to be a good person? Is it fair that they are sent to hell? The mistake behind this one is that is no “innocent savage.” I’ll let the Bible speak for itself here:

[A]ll, both Jews and Greeks, are under sin, as it is written:

“None is righteous, no, not one;
no one understands;
no one seeks for God.
All have turned aside; together they have become worthless;
no one does good,not even one.”
“Their throat is an open grave;
they use their tongues to deceive.”
“The venom of asps is under their lips.”
“Their mouth is full of curses and bitterness.”
“Their feet are swift to shed blood;
in their paths are ruin and misery,
and the way of peace they have not known.”
“There is no fear of God before their eyes.” (Romans 3:10-18)

The other part of the answer to this question is why we’re sent to hell. We aren’t damned (only) because of our response to the gospel. If it were true that those who don’t get to hear the gospel go to heaven, it would be the end of evangelism! According to Revelations 20, in the end people are judged “according to what they had done” (20:12). The offer of the gospel is totally grace in light of that. It isn’t owed to anyone and it is God’s mercy that it is offered to anyone at all.

Okay, this is quite long enough for a blog entry. Let me wrap this up.

Hell is a reality, not a merely difficult doctrine that some are embarrassed by. It is a place we are all headed, we are all “by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind” (Eph 2:3). But God doesn’t delight in the death of the wicked. He sent his Son to make a way for people to escape eternal punishment and instead enjoy eternity delighting in Him. Jesus Christ was more than a good teacher, though he was that. Though he was sinless, he died a sinners death not because God is unjust but because God is so just that the sins of his people must be punished. They are either punished on the eternal Son of God on the cross, or they are punished in the agony of hell. If you will put your trust in Jesus, acknowledging that He died for sinners and was raised from the dead to make them right with God, then God will not consign you to hell. In Revelation 20 there were two books opened. If your name isn’t in one, the other is opened and you’re judged by your works. If you will trust that Jesus is enough to spare you, you will find your name written in the first book. If not, the second book awaits you. I know that the things I have done in my life include many that I’m not proud of. I don’t want to be judged by them. It would be so much better to be judged by Jesus’ life than by your own. If the idea of hell scares you, it should. Believe that Jesus is sufficient to make you right with God and come follow him.

Re-reading this reminds me of a bunch of other things I have to say. I’m sure there will be further posts.

1 An Hebrew word that really denotes not heaven or hell but the abode of the dead. In other words, it encompasses both ideas. Both the righteous and the unrighteous are said to descend to Sheol. I was taught that Sheol was a place with two compartments and when Jesus died he went and released everyone from Sheol so they went to heaven or hell. There really is no Biblical evidence for this. The better way to think about it is to understand Sheol as an umbrella term for both, it is simply where dead people are.
2 D. A. Carson quoted in The Case for Faith by Lee Strobel, 193.